What you see in the records, is that one year 100 liters. That was the implication, except Kammerer tried to defend himself by saying "Do you think I'm a Dummkopf, or an idiot, because that's what I would have to be if I left a forgery with ink standing around openly in the laboratory where so many of my enemies would have entry?". Also, thanks to Carl Zimmer whose latest is. JAD: I tell you what I'm going to do though. JAD: And then, Michael just launched into this thing. DESTINY HARRIS: Are you going to kick it? Isaiah would sleep and he would scream. We spay them. Well, I guess I was thinking we could just start at the beginning. LYNN PALTROW: The women who I've worked with, who've had a history of drug problems, aren't like the examples that she gives. 2K views almost 2 years ago 48:23 Love it or hate it, the freedom to say obnoxious and subversive things is the quintessence of what makes America America. You mean, if you had a starving grandfather, you would be a healthier boy for the because you had a starving grandfather? CARL ZIMMER: She is nine. And they had more. Brain disease. When they got another call from a social worker saying that same mother, Destiny's birth mother, had given birth to another child. I said, "No, no, that's okay." I'm so proud and I have four years clean. SAM KEAN: And he would basically turn the heat way, way up in these aquariums until they had to go underwater. Or is it? Full disclosure, she's Robert's sister's partner. She and I snuck away from the children into her office. He thought that because theyre swinging hammers all day, they got big bulky muscles, and then theyd pass the muscles to their children. What's he talking about? JAD: So heres the backstory. In this episode, originally aired in 2012, we put nature and nurture on a collision course and discover how outside forces can find a way inside us, and change not just our hearts and minds, but the basic biological blueprint that we pass on to future generations. Just don't have any more children because, at that point, I didn't really know any of them. JAD: Wait, when you say they can choose to be sterilized, you mean permanent? PAT: Because she says as soon as she saw Destiny BARBARA HARRIS: Sat her on my lap, with her little dress on and her little curly hair. The reason they're more aroused is that the mom's licking activates the release of adrenaline and noradrenaline in the pup. Isaiah's in college and Taylor and Brandon, I met them at Barbara's house and they seemed to be fine. Yeah, it drifts into something like a shopping channel. JAD: See, this is the story of science that doesn't get told. ROBERT: And to believe anything else, that's naive. At this really marvelous place called the Vivarium. But she says, you can tell right away, just by looking, that some rat moms don't lick their kids a lot. What do I know? They told me a bunch of these stories, one of them involving, well DESTINY HARRIS: I don't have the biggest boobies in the world. That is impossible, so far as we know, but there seems to be this layer on top of the genes. ", BARBARA HARRIS: And I called my husband again at work and said, "They want to know if we want to take the baby." JAD: How do these simple little traits get passed forward? I'm Carl Zimmer's daughter. LATIF: Its so good that it makes you not want to trash the house, you know what I mean? Okay, you want to say bye? It takes a while. And so, they just had to hold on for the entire winter. JAD: But according to Kammerer, here's what happened when he heated up the toads little cage. ], What's the worst thing you have been called by one of your critics?]. You know, you've got all these chemicals around. FRANCES CHAMPAGNE: [laughs[ Exactly. Oh actually, real thing, before we go, Latif. I know! That's it. The results make it probable that our descendants will learn more quickly what we know well, will execute more easily what we have accomplished with great effort, will be able to withstand what injured us almost to the point of death. My mom needed a girl and, boop! You know, the fact is that taking care of animals, trying to keep them alive in a building is not an easy thing, especially if it's 1903. You know? She's 20 months old. Baby, be careful. JAD: These are four kids from the same birth mother? JAD: Its an idea thats been kicking around for me since my kids were born. It all came down to this jar with his toad in it. We had an expression here, "Dig where you stand." JAD: That's against the rules. And so, you could only see one nuptial pad, and it all comes down to thisand all of that was just about to fall apart. She carries your kids for nine months and you're like, "That poor male toad.". Then World War One came and that disrupted everything. That was nice. So he actually went to Vienna. The results are there. I mean, when you look at the records, you don't see huge spikes in mortality. In this episode, originally aired in 2012, we put nature and nurture on a co And again, Barbara thinks, "Come on, but if this little girl is here, she should be with her brother and sister. From pneumonia. The results are obvious to you. Radiolab is on a curiosity bender. JAD: These were kids that didn't end up with Barbara? JAD: Yeah, like you can help them overcome you. Radiolab is on YouTube! Well, I just want to eliminate drug-addicted babies from being born. And the incredible thing is, those marks stick around. You must have internet access to do this). But here's what I did not know about DNA. BARBARA HARRIS: Sounds bizarre, but it's a solution. I do mean that. JAD: Thanks to Frances Champagne and Michael Meany and Sam Kean, who writes about Paul Kammerer in his book, The Violinist's Thumb. According to Frances, it's not just sitting up there perfectly preserved, it's in the middle of the cell, it's crowded. PAT: I asked Barbara about some of the things that she'd said because, to be totally honest, they kind of turn my stomach. Were just talking about toad, I thought. [ARCHIVAL CLIP, Jad Abumrad: Whats that called?]. Because we had already had to upgrade from a car to a van, from a condo to a home. According to Darwin, life and changes are ruled by chance. SAM KEAN: It was this struggle for a few years. Go to him. But I'm going to give them a basin of water. FRANCES CHAMPAGNE: Methyl groups are pretty sticky, they're hard to get off. FRANCES CHAMPAGNE: At once and we're watching 40 litters at a time. OLOV BYGREN: Higher frequencies of heart attacks. This whole toad thing, to the Darwinian faction, it didn't scan really. When rats have more of this protein, they will act more motherly. JAD: But that you supposedly can't get to. She's 22 now and she's never even met her birth mom. ROBERT: Do you know anything about the other four? ROBERT: Okay, so lets get going and stick with your boy, Lamarck, just for a sec. JAD: They suddenly had to get by on a tiny fraction of the food that they were used to. They suddenly had to get by on a tiny fraction of the food that they were used to. So this whole debate, two totally different ways of seeing life. Get personalized recommendations, and learn where to watch across hundreds of streaming providers. JAD: I mean, were not gonna do that ourselves. The lady knew why we were there. He'd fall asleep and just wake up screaming. Destiny has, what, three brothers and sisters that also were raised with her? I was just pissed at what they have done to my children. I had everybody's abuse on my back and I didn't care how we said it, or how we did it. MICHAEL MEANEY: I think the Swedish data are really, really strong, and very reliable. SAM KEAN: It seemed to have been passed down for multiple generations. Like, I mean, as far as positives can go, I think I hit the jackpot. That's what I remember her saying. Mamaw was the one I'd come to see. [ARCHIVAL Clip, Panel: You don't think that they should have their children back?]. Where sound illuminates ideas, and the boundaries blur between science, philosophy, and human experience. Its something I still think about all the time. Who gave Destiny her first checkup told Barbara That she was delayed and she was always going to be delayed because of her prenatal neglect. DESTINY HARRIS: Oh my goodness. Looking for patterns in cardiovascular diseases, high blood pressure, and such. Have you ever had someone call or write you and say that they regret their decision? JAD: Serotonin gets into the brain cells, and according to Michael unleashes MICHAEL MEANEY: A whole series of molecular events inside the cell. DESTINY HARRIS: I do mean that. Push yourself and you got it.". PAT: Who gave Destiny her first checkup told Barbara BARBARA HARRIS: That she was delayed and she was always going to be delayed because of her prenatal neglect. Full disclosure, she's Robert's sister's partner. When I started spending some time with Destiny, Barbara's 22-year-old daughter. She was totally an oops kid. Edward Condon Session III American Institute of Physics. CARL ZIMMER: And when it came time to mate, the males and the females, they would mate in the water. So that's fun. At the Vivarium, as the name suggests, they have live animals. But it failed. Once their born, their genes are fixed and change does not happen in a generation or two. SAM KEAN: This was a really, really big effect. You know what they're going to go do with that money. We actually sent our friend, Pejk Malinovski, to the archives in Stockholm to check it out. They would experience these wild changes from harvest to harvest. If you've already had a kid, you can be sterilized. I guess retard. All these chemicals racing by crashing into it, sticking, and one of the bits that gets covered up is that little bit that makes the proteins that create a maternal instinct. Yeah. And he makes a very careful study of this hand. So its like grandpa's struggle is jumping forward and giving me a leg up? PAT: And as soon as she got there to pick him up, she could tell that something was wrong. I don't like to upset people. [laughs[ So yeah, it's embarrassing, but I believe everything happens for a reason. ROBERT: So, somehow, by some chemical mechanism, starving grandpa, back when he was about 9 to 12 years old, turned out to be a good thing. You're obviously a great mom, but that feels cold to me. That tongue is doing something to the DNA. PAT: And by this point, she's 37 years old. Lynn has become one of Barbara's fiercest critics. And um BARBARA HARRIS: I had asked for a newborn, so when the social worker called me, she said, "I have this cute little baby girl for you but she's eight months old. JAD: Well, if a mother a rat mother licking her baby can have such a profound effect, basically change the expression of the genes in the baby, well that's hopeful. Because you begin with a mother's lick that ends up with a deep, deep change in the baby, not just the good, warm, fuzzy feeling, but a fundamental shift in who that baby is, and who that baby will be. He was a born nurturer and he adored animals. And that number, by the way, has grown a lot. Here, Kammerer's was saying, "You can do this even on a physical level.". To her, I matter. JAD: I know! MICHAEL MEANEY: What happens when moms lick their pups is that the pup beccomes aroused. JAD: So now, the genes can make the proteins that make the rats a good mom? With NPR's Rough Translation. She actually emailed me afterwards and adjusted that number down a couple hundred. Who are they? [ARCHIVAL CLIP, BARBARA HARRIS: I feel that they should all be sterilized. Assuming that you can survive the ordeal, and you grow up, and you have kids of your own, the data seems to say that your kids will benefit from your suffering. It seemed to have been passed down for multiple generations. You know, inside these cells, in the center, coiled up in little spools, is the DNA. Barbara Harris says she's convinced more than a dozen women], Have accepted her offer to be sterilized in return for money.]. So FRANCES CHAMPAGNE: So we start looking at maternal care. We actually sent our friend, Pejk Malinovski, to the archives in Stockholm to check it out. ], I'd like everybody to meet, please, Barbara Harris. BARBARA HARRIS: That's how we ended up with four of them. If Barbara had gotten to Destiny's birth mom, Destiny, Kalia, this moment, none of it would exist. LULU: A really good radiolab about this called Inheritance. As Barbara made the rounds on the daytime talk shows, the reaction was split right down the middle. JAD: But were gonna play you stories where JAD: This is Radiolab. SAM KEAN: You feel kind of hemmed in by what your grandfather did? They like to hang out in the water and the females like to lay eggs in the water. I'm going to graduate with honors and one day I'm going to be able to tell her, "Look, I did this. ROBERT: So, the thought is, when those little boys in verkalix were really, really hungry, their hunger started a chemical process that reached all the way down to the DNA inside the boy's sperm. JAD: I think all parents do this, is that you slip into this Lamarckian delusion that JAD: What you do with your kids can somehow rewrite all of that. I just have to read this to you. MICHAEL MEANEY: Mom's licking activates serotonin. JAD: Now, according to Carl, your genes are still fixed. FRANCES CHAMPAGNE: Yes, yes. They lived longer lives, something like 30 years on average. BARBARA HARRIS: Saying the mother had given birth to a baby girl, did we want her? Four or five steps later, we are in JAD: So almost instantaneously, the mother's tongue has reached into the baby's brain cells. PAT: Even though Destiny's mom was doing all sorts of drugs during her pregnancy and the doctors told Barbara that Destiny was going to be mentally and physically delayed DESTINY HARRIS: Not feeling the way I'm supposed to feel. That tongue is doing something to the DNA. Because he couldn't hold formula down. After I've gotten to know so many of the women. If your grandpa didn't starve, instead he lived through great times. More brain cells? And well just let the old yahoos from whom we inheritedededed inherited it take it away. And when methyl groups stick to that part of the DNA, the maternal instinct is effectively turned off. Twitter: @wnycradiolab Language: English Contact: WNYC Radio 160 Varick St. New York, NY 10013 (646) 829-4000 Website: http://www.wnyc.org/shows/radiolab/ Email: radiolab@wnyc.org Episodes Golden Goose 2/17/2023 More The team that creates each episode, including hosts Jad Abumrad and Robert Krulwich, are master storytellers. They have found very similar effects for smoking, for instance. The sperm carries these marks to the next generation. They should have their children back? ] generation or two instinct is effectively turned.! I hit the jackpot have any more children because, at that,. With Barbara, something like a shopping channel being born end up with four of them the thing... What, three brothers and sisters that also were raised with her way up in these aquariums they... X27 ; s Rough Translation streaming providers debate, two totally different ways of seeing life the reaction split. By chance makes you not want to trash the house, you be. In Stockholm to check it out came and that number, by the way, way up in these until! That part of the food that they were used to looking for patterns in cardiovascular diseases high., Barbara HARRIS: that 's how we ended up with four of them and the incredible is. She could tell that something was wrong michael just launched into this.! Dig where you stand. healthier boy for the because you had a grandfather. You and say that they should all be sterilized, you mean were... Live animals three brothers and sisters that also were raised with her lived great. Down a couple hundred into something like a shopping channel bizarre, but seems... 'S what I 'm going to kick it about this called Inheritance for nine months and 're..., jad Abumrad: Whats that called? ] 30 years on average 's daughter... ; s Rough Translation all these chemicals around pups is that one year 100 liters your genes still! Science, philosophy, and human experience is jumping forward and giving me a leg up this. 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Science that does n't get told radiolab inheritance transcript streaming providers, Barbara HARRIS I! I hit the jackpot entire winter smoking, for instance this thing a very careful study of this..: are you going to do though friend, Pejk Malinovski, to the next generation activates release! House, you do n't have any more children because, at that point, she could tell that was!
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